Help and Advice For Renting and Buying in France

I get a lot of mail asking for information about life and property in France. When relevant, I try to publish these notes on blogs for others.

This is an exchange about a renters rights for an apartment rental in Paris.

=

Hello Tony,
We are finally back in Los Angeles and we must have brought a few clouds with us because it is now raining this week.

I want to thank you for taking the time to visit with us, chat about living in France and guide us through Pezenas. It was a very lovely time and gave us much to think and talk about. We had a wonderful time exploring more of the southern villes and wish we did not have to leave so soon. We hope to be back soon to explore more of France and soak up more culture while eating lots of pain au chocolat.:)

I’m hoping we can stay in touch and share thoughts and ideas and hope you are available sometimes to field the many questions I will have concerning living in France, moving to France, working in France, etc.?

On another note, I’ve been reading your new site ParisCharade.com and find it very interesting. I’m not sure you remember, but we did rent an apartment in Paris for 5 days. Unfortunately, while we were staying there a plank under our bed broke and now it seems we will almost be buying a new bed from what the owner is telling me. I wish I would have known about the law concerning vacation rentals in Paris as I most certainly would have chosen a hotel over the apartment. Particularly now that I’m having to forfeit quite a large deposit to pay for a bed. You’re right, I did not take out any trip insurance of any kind, not that it would help me in this case.

Thank you for all of the information you provide on each of your websites. It is very nice to see someone take an active interest in something they believe in and very inspirational to me as well.

Heather

=

Hello Heather,

Do keep in touch through my newsletter and blogs , always happy to chat and help if I can in any way.

The way you have been treated in the apartment rental is disgraceful, if  bed breaks then this is the fault of the landlord and it is you who should demand compensation – if one of the slats on the base has broken, these cost a few cents.

Let me know who the landlord or agency is, these people are already breaking the laws by renting privately, I suggest you point this out to them and demand not only your deposit, but a full refund, if you paid by credit card, report them and possibly get a chargeback. Tell them you will report them to the Prefecture for illegally renting an apartment – refer them to my site and demand your money back.

I do feel very strongly that people, mostly overseas visitors, are being abused by this apartment rental racket.

Hope to see you all in France again soon

Best wishes

Tony

=

Hello Tony,

Thank you for your information concerning the Paris rental.
I found the apartment through VRBO. The owner  lives in the U.S. We actually met him when we arrived in Paris as he was leaving for the U.S. He has a person who cares for the property in France.

I was thinking since we found the listing on VRBO that he was legal and also there is an antique store on the bottom level of the building so I thought maybe it was commercially zoned as you had talked about.

I don’t know the laws in France and what damages the tenant may be responsible for, but we just figured we had to pay for the bed.

It is actually a larger support beam probably 2 by 4 inches that broke under the bed. We have photos of it, but not sure what good they can do for us. After hearing from the owner I am quite surprised to hear the ensuing trouble the broken beam has caused the rest of the bed, which is being touted as “custom made” and to resolve such trouble the owner is now saying the original makers of the bed must come and see what they can do to fully restore the bed. So, it sounds like lots more money to be paid out.

If you believe I should go ahead and let the owner know that I should not be held liable for the damages I will gladly do so.

I am unfamiliar with chargebacks and am unsure what to say to the credit card company when speaking of this matter. Any ideas would be welcome.

Thank you again for your time. I truly appreciate your insight and information.

Heather

=

Hello Heather

You can tell the bank or credit card company that this was a security deposit which the owner is refusing to return as he is making a false claim – any damage to a thing like a bed would be covered by his insurance – beds simply do no break unless they are defective – holes in sheets, broken crockery, stained covers etc is negligence and you should pay, but structural damage, a chair which collapses, a bed which is faulty, a table leg which falls off etc etc is clearly down to the owner as the equipment is faulty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chargeback

Definitely protest the claim –

Tony

=

Hello Tony,

I did let the owner know that I wanted a full refund of the deposit due to the fact that it could have been distressed already by prior tenants.
I have yet to hear back from him. I am proceeding to contact my credit card company as well.

Should he respond negatively, is it safe to let him know he is breaking the law by renting to me? I would hate to find out he is the one apartment building that is able to legally rent to vacationers such as myself. Your information has helped me so much and I will be directing him to your website as well to further validate my position.

I hope you don’t mind if I email you updates as they occur?

Thanks again,
Heather

=

Hello Heather

I doubt in that street it can be commercial apart from the ground floor – ask him for proof that his apartment is correctly rated as commercial and therefore can be rented for vacationers, if not then demand a full refund as he has put you at risk by having no insurance cover for you – tell him if it not correctly zoned and classified as commercial he is breaking at least three laws and you will report him to the Mairie and prefecture – your statement that he rented on a weekly basis, will guarantee they make a prosecution as they are currently looking for owners they can make an example of to stop illegal rentals.

Let me know how it develops – I would like to blog this, keeping your name out of it, to help others

Tony

=

Hello Tony,

Another question has come to my mind – what if the apartment owner tells me that he actually lives in the apartment full time, but rents it out a few times a year when he is not there? Is there a law against apartment owners doing this? I’m thinking again that there would still be no insurance cover for me. Am I correct or am I overthinking this? Are owners on VRBO where I found this listing also breaking the laws?

I’ve sent him an email demanding proof that the apartment is zoned commercial as you suggested. I also demanded a refund for the full amount plus deposit.
I plan to give him 24 hours to return the funds or I am proceeding with my credit card company.

I will forward more information as I receive it.

Thanks again,
Heather

=

Hello Heather

Unless it is an established commercial property, it is illegal to rent out an apartment in Paris for a period of less than a year – most of the apartments advertised on VRBO are illegal offers and the owners will be breaking the law if they rent for less than one year (or nine months in the case of a student).

Most owners are not aware of this law and the aim of the City authorities is now to make this known and to enforce the law. Penalties are high – 25,000 euro plus 1,000 euro a day (up to a maximum of 80,00 euro) fine plus up to 5 years in prison.

VRBO is a very reputable company and I doubt they know about this law yet.

Hope this helps

Tony

=

Hello Tony,

Interesting development, the owner of the apartment emailed back quite a long email and has stated I am responsible for all damages to the bed particularly since I admitted in an email that after I “fell” into bed from exhaustion the bed broke. He also stated there were scratches to a table that now needs to be repainted and that brochures were missing that will cost money to replace. I did take a map of Paris, but the table we do not remember having any damage or doing any damage to.

He says he has a friend in Paris who is a lawyer and verified that all of his contracts between us are legal and will hold up on the French courts. The following is an excerpt from his email concerning this: “Additionally, I do not rent to third party agencies which is the subject of the article or blog that you sent- I can assure you that I rent this apartment legally as everything that I do including the contracts you signed are legal and enforceable under French law-I have a friend that is a Paris lawyer and she oversees the entire process for me.”

At this point, I’m not quite sure if I should proceed with the contacting my credit card for a chargeback or not. I’d hate to think I needed to return to Paris for a court hearing concerning this matter.

Any ideas are much appreciated.

Thank you for your time.

Heather

=

Hello Heather ,

He sounds a thoroughly nasty piece of work. Most lawyers I have spoken to are ignorant of the laws relating to the prohibition of short term rentals of private apartments in the centre of Paris, there are thousands of laws in the books and no lawyer can know them all, the simply look them up when the are needed. The contract he has may appear to be legal, but, if the rental is illegal in the first place the the ‘contract is worthless.

It depends how much ‘hassle’ you want, whether you write off the deposit, or fight a little. I cannot advise you, I know I would try to enforce a chargeback, I would also report him to the City of paris, the addresses are on http://ParisCharade.com in the downloads.

My blog is not about third party agencies, it is aimed at owners and renters, it is they who are breaking the laws or who are at risk. Most of the comments on my blog though is from agencies who seem to be blaming me for upsetting their business model – if they base a business on a criminal activity then the risk of action against them is theirs.

Best wishes

Tony

=

Hello Tony,

I was writing to give you a quick update and ask if by chance I could forward the latest letter from Francois Plottin, Chef du Bureau de la Protection des Locaux d’Habitation in Paris.

It is written in French and while I have used an online translator to decipher the message I am still unclear as to what they would like from me or are directing me to do.
I understand I need to forward them the specific location of the apartment, but am not sure if they are going to help me or just letting me know the rules of the apartment rentals in Paris.

I had initially written to Sylvie Dardenne and received a reply from Damien Blaise Administrateur de la ville de Paris, Chef du bureau des affaires juridiques, Direction du logement et de l’habitat to which I forwarded copies of the rental contract. This led to the latest email from Plottin.

My last email correspondence with the owner of the apartment was me telling him is was going to contact the authorities since he was being unfair about returning the deposit. Needless to say I have not heard from him since and don’t expect to.

I phoned me credit card and they said I basically do not have a case since the contract I signed specifically states that all damages will be deducted from the deposit.

So, I guess I have spent a rather large amount on a Paris vacation. If I had known I would be spending this amount, I would have stayed in nicer accomodations. 🙂

Thank you again for your time and I do wish you and your family a wonderful New Year!

Heather

=

Hello Heather,

Yes, please send me a copy of the letter from Mr Plottin;

As the rental is certain to be illegal, there is also the matter of fraud by the owner. You can report this to the French Consumer Protection authorities, DGCCRF, at http://www.dgccrf.bercy.gouv.fr/anglais.htm (this part of the site is in English) – they have a leaflet, in English, with more contact points and an outline of your consumer rights – you can download this from my site at http://ParisCharade.com/welcome_to_france.pdf

The laws relating to the rentals of vacation properties have been mainly ignored by owners and the authorities. But the massive growth of this business in the last ten years, due to the Internet, is forcing the government to tighten up the application of the laws and the rights of consumers.

Your experience of an owner flouting the laws and abusing your rights is one reason why the local authorities and the government is concerned and are planning to take action to correct this.

Unfortunately it is often overseas owners who cause these problems through greed and ignorance.

Keep me posted please

Best wishes

Tony

=

Hi Tony,
I hope you’re doing well. It’s been a while since I’ve written, so thought I would send an update on the Paris apartment rental.
After sending the requested information to the French officials I never heard anything back from them. I did send an additional email last month stating I had receipts for the apartment rental should they like to see that I was actually charged for the rental.
I have never received a response so am assuming they’re finished with me.

I did initiate a dispute with my credit card for the deposit amount of $900. After a lengthy exchange of paperwork they have credited my account for the deposit, however, the owner/merchant has 45 days to dispute this, which, if my credit card agrees with him, could result in a chargeback on me for the deposit amount. I don’t see this as a “win” and am holding my breath as there are 30 more days to go in the 45 day count down. Of course, if he does not respond within 45 days he loses his chance to dispute the chargeback.

Anyway, lesson learned. Thank you again for all of your help and assistance over the past months. I really appreciate your time and insight.

On another note, we’re still seriously considering moving to France in the next 2 years.
I was wondering if you wouldn’t mind if I write every now and then with questions? I need to read more of your blog and archives, which will probably answer most of them, however, I have random questions pop in my head occasionally, and my husband is full of them, and we would love to hear your opinion.

Hope all is well!
Thanks again,
Heather

=

Hi Tony!

I hope you are doing well and have a full house this summer! I thought I would write a final note on the outcome of the Paris apartment rental. As I had mentioned in a previous email, I opened a dispute with my credit card and they did credit my account for the deposit, however, the apartment owner told his side of the story providing them the email in which I did indeed admit to breaking the bed, therefore, they sided with him and charged me again for the deposit. Anyhow, I have learned a lot and am now in a better position to make future decisions when visiting Paris or recommending to friends my experience.

I have read your blog and you sound very busy, but in a good way! Villa Roquette sounds and looks so beautiful!
I will try to find you on Facebook and send a note.
I hope you don’t mind if I write you in the future for tips and advice on moving to France including purchasing property as we are dutifully working toward this goal.

Heather


Marketing Your Vacation Property

I have been marketing our own vacation accommodation, exclusively through the internet, since 1997.

Internet marketing has changed a lot in the last 12 years, but right now things are changing very fast and a lot of the advice and information is not relevant.

The main changes are –

– The quantity of accommodation on offer has grown, in our area of Languedoc (Sud de France), today there are over ten times the number of properties, bed and breakfasts, gites and villas on offer than ther were when we started in 1997

– Holidaymakers and tourists are a lot more selective and demand a far higher level of comfort and demand better value for their money. Overall rental prices have not risen in over 10 years and in real terms have fallen by up to half. However, the number of visitors to France has not risen, this year it is down, perhaps up to 20 percent.

– Advertising on the Internet has exploded – when we started there were a handful of International advertising sites and a couple specialising in France. I started a couple of very successful sites myself (1stVacations.com and RentalsFrance.com) which were at the top of the search engines for over three years (from 1999 to 2003 with traffic in the millions). Now there are thousands of advertising sites listing and offering vacation properties, some are still very good, but once they listed a few thousand places – now their listings are in the tens of thousands and some over 100,000 rentals.

To balance this a little, there are of course more people using the Internet now, but those using it to find and book holidays is not in proportion to the overall growth of Internet users.

Another factor shifting the advertising usage is the move from computers with keyboards, to mobile devices (like the iPadand iPhone etc) – Google clearly is addressing the changes in usage and all big players are developing tools and apps focusing more on local searching and semantic information.

I am writing this as I had a recent exchange of mails with a guest who has just bought a hope her andasked me for advice on renting it out. Here is my correspondence which outlines some of my views on this.

=

Hi Tony and Carole

The house is offically mine, as of yesterday. Very exciting. I think I will go there for a few weeks in late October – I’ll let you know, as it would be great to see you when I’m there.

Meanwhile I can finally start the process of trying to rent it – I couldn’t even begin before because we had no firm possession date – there were so many delays, most of which I blame on the Atlantic Ocean. Anyway, I think to begin I will put it on one of those holiday lettings websites, and I remember you saying some were better value than others, and I’m wondering if you can tell me which would be a good choice? I know I’m late in the game for renting it to anyone this fall, but I’ve got to try anyway, lest my bank account run even drier than it already has.

I’m going to do a facebook and twitter account for it and get my cousin to work on the lame (aka useless) website that I inherited with it but all that is going to take time. I want to get it out there in the holidayer’s universe as quickly as I can, so I figure banging it up on some holiday website is the way to do that.

Looking forward to seeing you again, this time as a homeowner!

Carolyn

=

Hi Carolyn

Felicitations – We look forward to seeing you when you are here.

Marketing your rentals – the Internet is the most important marketing tool to use, but now this is very different to the ways to market of even only a few months ago.

Apart from direct personal contact with friends and relations, using the Internet to generate clients for your rentals is the most important method.

From the late 1990s until last year, getting found on the search engines was the best way to get clients, if possible with your own site, but usually for the vast majority of owners through the paid listing sites.

Things have now changed completely, computer searches through search engines are falling, search patterns have altered and referrals to websites are increasing from social networks. Also there is a big shift to mobile devices for searching, away from laptop or desktop computers. Search engines are still important of course, but in our own case account for only 16 percent of visitors to our sites and this is falling monthly. Overall searches last month globally (coincidentally) are 16 percent down on last year. Visitors are coming from other “applications” and direct references.

These trends seem to be increasing and accelerating.

Combine this with a fall in both the numbers and the spending by tourists to France, plus a general feeling of “concern” about money and value makes getting good paying renters is a different game to what it was a year ago and a different planet to when I started marketing our apartments solely through the Internet in 1997

Another factor making the Internet rental listing sites less effective is the sheer number of them appearing every week, there are literally thousands of sites offering listing services, some paid, some commission and some adding fees to take bookings. Every permutation to offer other peoples properties to rent through Internet listing is out there and none now seem to be cost effective, efficient or working.

I am mostly talking about the general listing websites who get their profits from the numbers of advertisers – the more advertisers they get, the more they make. This is a self-defeating plan as the more listings they get, the less visible your individual property becomes, they then drop their prices to keep the advertisers and therefore need more listings. However, some niche and local sites are successful.

The shift in search methods by individuals from search engine general listing to more focused search, plus the use of mobile applications to search with has also changed the way people look for rentals.

Add to this the concern about fraud, deception and safety and finding an effective way to advertise is getting very difficult.

But –

The bottom line is, millions of people are coming to France every year (16 million visitors to Languedoc – that number 16 again) and many are renting private accommodation which they find and select through the Internet. The skill is to get them to first see your property and then to decide that your property is the one they want.

A few key factors….

For vacation rentals, the Internet is the main way to promote you property .

There are 61 million listings on Google for vacation/holiday websites

There are over 8 million listings on Google for vacation/holiday websites for France (as it happens one of my sites is number one today)

There are over 87 thousand listings on Google for vacation/holiday websites for Languedoc (as it happens my sites are one and two and I have two other sites in the top ten)

There is more on offer so the prices are lower than they were a few years ago;

People are demanding more for their money.

People are booking later each year.

So how do you promote your rentals?

Set the right price for the niche markets you have determined.

Offer the services and unique selling points of your property which satisfy the niche markets you have determined.

Get clear an objective advice from local, successful, experts as to what people expect from a property like yours (get three opinions at least, do not pay for them – well drink a bottle of wine with them or whatever – paid opinion is skewed)

Did I mention niche markets?

This is the key to your overall marketing strategy – once you have determined the niche(s) you need to research the ways these particular target clients use the Internet – then present yourself in front of them offering the right price and the right service.

All this with flair and a design to attract and pull you above the competition.

So what do I advise?

I no longer advise any listing services – I believe the best is http://vrbo.com, but the cost for an effective advert is now over $550 a year and you will need a lot of business to justify this. http://gite.com I also believe is good, but they only take top level properties with pools. http://www.holiday-rentals.co.uk/ costs about £300 a year and again it is unlikely they would generate a profit for you.

Your own website – this is essential, but to get it to a position where it is visible in it’s own right and gets business for you either needs a lot of time, experience and skills for you to do it, or the services of an expert which is expensive – charges are from $50 to $200 an hour -you need about 50 hours work to get started and over 10 hours a month continual marketing skill and this is very rare.

There are many “experts” offering services to get you to the “top of the search engines” – these are all frauds, many are a disaster as they use tricks which quickly get you banned from Google etc and you are over $1000 poorer as well – there is no easy solution to successful Internet marketing – or any marketing anywhere at any time.

These simple economics have made a lot of vacation property owners quit the rentals business.

Social networks are a must – a Facebook page – perhaps look at several of the other 200 top social network sites and consider them if you have identified a niche market which they service.

Twitter – schedule a series of tweets eery day using keywords for your niche markets.

Forums – every niche market has a plethora of chat rooms and forums to satisfy them – post on these regularly, build a following and shamelessly promote yourself.

I have said you need a website – it must work for all computers and definitely for mobiles using Apple an Andriod software. This restricts the format you can display – look at my sites for http://vilaroquette.com and for http://southernfrance.fr – these are the minimum you can offer for presentation.

Build (or get built) your own website which uses a low cost, or free, content management system (CMS) so that you can do all the maintenance and upgrading yourself. In my opinion there is only one choice, WordPress from http://wordpress.org

Get the best photographs you can – if you are an enthusiastic photographer, do these yourself – if not – get them done.

Write copy which is structured to address both the niche markets you have identified and mentions the unique points, location etc of your property – get these “keywords” to account for about 3 perent of each page of content and no more than three keyword per page – sp you are likely to need a minimum of ten pages from 350 to 500 words long.

Add something to this website every day, a diary/blog/photo/page/ something relevent and interesting.

Get the site optimised for performance, speed and structure – ensure all aspects that are used to deliver information to search devices are accurate and comply with the guidelines laid down by these services.

Keep up to date with the services guidelines by reading their advice pages, get onto their newsletters and reading their blogs, at least once a week.

The name of the site should clearly indicate what you re offering – you have a very strong name, but it is not relevant for your house – it is too directed at the whole of France – it may seem to attract traffic, but this will rarely be relevant for your property.

Brainstorm a name which geo-locates and describes your place. This is not easy but avoid any village name most people will never have heard of – I have spent a great deal of time researching and registering names – for you I start with something like “rentmyhomeinlanguedoc.com” and develop this to things like “pezenaslanguedocrental.com” or “pezenasperfest.com” (all are available at this moment) – do not bother with anything but .com – the name needs keywords which are searched for – don’t worry about the length or awkwardness of the name – very very few people type these in anymore – they click from other sites and most referrers like twitter shorten them anyway.

I realise this is not answering your question – “which sites to advertise on” – but for this year – none will, in my opinion, bring you any viable business – if you advertise on the four I mention – you could be spending over $2000 to get perhaps your money back in new rentals

I am working on a raft of new ideas, mainly to help develop my own marketing, but to do this I have to expand to involve many other people and build cooperative sites and marketing plans.

Lots to talk about when you are here – this may be a two bottle problem Holmes!

best wishes

Tony

=

Hi Tony

Wow! I’ve got a lot to learn…I’ve given the house a name – Maison Rose-Clair – and made a facebook page and twitter account. I know what I really need to do is get the website better, but it’s a bit of a longer arc project – a friend who works for Apple tells me I can create a new one through Iweb and get it hosted on some Mac site that also allows it to viewed on mobiles. He says it’s very easy to maintain, but I have to get my mitts on Iweb before I can begin.

Anyway, I just finished a few weeks of intense work in my actual job, so now I can devote proper time to the house. Thanks so much for all this info – I’m going to be studying and digesting it and hopefully implementing it correctly.

I’ll be out there Oct 28 for a couple of weeks, so be sure to set aside some wine-drinkin’ time.

Thanks again,
Carolyn

=

Hi Carolyn

The name of your home need not be the name of a website used for marketing it – search algorithms like a site name which targets the offering – rentals are location defined so a name identifying a term fixing your position and which is searched is very important so my point about a name like languedocgite.com or pezenashomerental.com is more useful than castelnau.com which is not a useful search term – and is already taken anyway.

At present I am working with names using SudFrance as the wine and tourism in Languedoc is adopting this term in preference to the name “Languedoc” (as most people have no idea where or what it is)

Making a website is not difficult iweb is simple and useful, but very limited – this summary may help http://www.applematters.com/article/iweb_a_first_look/ – iweb is expensive for what it is and is only useful if you have all Apple stuff.

There are many free hosting sites and services, a paid host starts at $3 a month – you are bound to have friends with spare server space – I host dozens of sites for people and can help if you wish.

The software and tools needed to make sites are getting easier every day – My preference for websites is WordPress from http://Wordpress.org – this is free open source software and not hard to use – I can set up the database and load the basic tools for you or I am sure you have many friends who can do this – all you then have to do is use a simple dashboard to add text and photos to your site – for example, I did this for a friend on Monday – http://barbaraheide.com – Barbara knows nothing about website design, servers or any of that stuff.

But getting the site to bring in clients is a big and expensive skilled operation – the main value for you is simply as a “leaflet” or “catalogue” for your home and to give the address to people wanting to know more.

Getting the advertising done is where you first asked me to comment and at present I do not believe any of the big advertising sites are viable as so much has changed and is rapidly developing in internet search patterns and use of mobiles etc.

My bottle opener is poised in anticipation

Tony


Ten Top Tips for House Buying in France

I saw this article in today’s Telegraph – the journalist is talking about buying in Peter Mayle’s Provence – but the ten pieces of advice given at the end of the article are good.

Did I mention I met Peter Mayle – here is a photo of us 🙂

Tony Tidswell and Peter mayle

Peter Mayle and Tony Tidswell

TOP TEN TIPS FOR BUYING IN FRANCE

1 Try before you buy

Rent a holiday house in your chosen area. You might discover it is too far from airports or the sea. Or you don’t like the local wine or architecture.

2 Investigate in depth

Photographs can be deceptive. Go to see properties at least twice and drive there yourself. Also check out the surroundings. Is there a good local village? Does it feel too built-up or too remote?

3 Check the layout

If you are planning to let your property to holiday makers, the layout of the house and grounds is crucial. Dangerous balconies, unfenced pools and remote locations down bumpy tracks will put off potential tenants.

4 Know procedures

See www.frenchnotaire.com for detailed information on the purchasing procedure and financing a property in France.

5 Seek assistance

If you don’t speak French, go with someone who does and is on your side. If you are planning on renovating, take along an architect who understands your intentions.

6 Planning help

It’s obligatory to use a qualified and registered architect to prepare and submit a planning application, if the proposed habitable area is greater than 170sq m.

7 Sharing a vision

When choosing an architect, make sure you see a few of their previous projects. French tastes differ dramatically from English. You need to find someone who shares your vision.

8 Check agreements

If you decide to proceed, the vendors’ notaire (solicitor) will send you a compromis de vente (sales agreement). Make sure you understand and agree with it. Your own notaire will help you to modify it if necessary.

9 Sourcing funds

There are numerous mortgage brokers offering to lend money for French property.

10 Agent support

Consider using a buying agent to help locate a property and negotiate on your behalf.

11 Stay with us at http://VillaRoquette.com